Apathy is a central symptom in depression and depression is a cardinal symptom of the crisis of civilization. And we are in this civilization of you know a disenchanted world. We are taught that the science has all the answers and everything is matter and this is not true. When you forbid the spiritual unconscious you have societal, civilisational neurosis. The symptoms of depression, aggression and of addiction. This is the same idea that when we have a need for meaning. We have a need for sense. And if you repress this need, it's come back from, if you push it out through the door it comes back from the window.